You Were Never A Christian

sirjames45:

What I am about to say is not a private interpretation. It is the consensus of Christians for two thousand years.

A true Christian can NOT lose their salvation. A true Christian can NOT believe, and then change their mind later on.

This is how it works according to the Bible.

1. God chose whom He would save before the world was ever made.

2. The entire human race is born COMPLETELY spiritually dead, because of what Adam and Eve did in disobeying God. ALL mankind is born with a will enslaved to sin, and will do nothing but suppress the knowledge of God, and reject God.

3. Jesus came and died SPECIFICALLY for His people, the ones God the Father chose.

4. At some time during the life of each one of those chosen people, the elect, the Holy Spirit comes and MAKES them come ALIVE spiritually.

5. When the Holy Spirit does this, the person has a NEW will, and a NEW nature, and the first thing they naturally want to do is repent and trust in Jesus. So, they do. Even if, they know they will suffer for doing it, God’s grace cannot be resisted, and their new nature makes them want to accept Jesus. Their eyes have been PERMANENTLY OPENED.

6. The people whom God has chosen, whom Jesus died for, and the whom the Holy Spirit has made alive, are Gods chosen people, and God the Father CAUSES them to persevere in the faith until the end.

THAT……….is why there is no such thing as “I used to be a Christian…”

I take your word for it, you mentally believed some facts about Jesus,and God.

Demons also believe the same facts.

You grew up around some Christians, and you saw at least some benefit from their belief, and you decided that you also believed. You gave it a try, and maybe a serious try at that. Kind of like some people try yoga, or positive thinking.

But, that did NOT make you a Christian. GOD makes people Christians, and ONLY He saves.

You will be saved if and when God’s Holy Spirit MAKES you come alive spiritually, and then you will be a Christian. I would suggest asking God to save you, and putting yourself in the place where you hear the Word of God preached, etc.

If you need scripture verses to show what I have said here, I have about 130 concerning those numbered points I made above.

In Christ,

James

Evid3nc3:

James,

I did not just believe in facts. Given the experiential stories I have told you about [in the comments of 2.7: Losing God] and referenced in my videos numerous times:

-speaking in tongues

-speaking to Jesus

-feeling God’s presence

-feeling God’s guidance

you must simply be *ignoring* me because it would make your argument weaker if you actually acknowledged the truth. The truth is: I did not just believe in logical propositions. The truth is: I had very touching and meaningful *experiences* as a Christian, every bit as passionate and heartfelt as any other Christian.

If you want to continue to ignore these personal experiences I had, and simply go on thinking smugly to yourself how I “only believed in facts”, that is your privilege. But it would be delusional and irrational for you to continue to do so.

“A true Christian can NOT lose their salvation. A true Christian can NOT believe, and then change their mind later on.”

When you make statements like this, you are committing the No True Scotsman fallacy, which is explained in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJrAaGJudw

Best,

Evid3nc3

7 comments on “You Were Never A Christian

  1. Commenter says:

    Hey Evid3nc3,

    You might already be aware of this, but as far as I can tell, sirjames45 is merely repeating the 5 points of Calvinism.

    His assertion that: “It is the consensus of Christians for two thousand years.” seems a bit misleading for two reasons.

    1. The 5 points of Calvinism, in their collected form, have only been around for several hundred years. John Calvin, whose ideas they relate to, lived in the 16th century. (although individual ideas contained may well have been around earlier)

    2. Those ideas definitely are not the “consensus” of Christians. (The alternative theological understanding is Arminianism.)

    • evid3nc3 says:

      Yeah, I had David Shedlock of the blog Caffeinated Theology try to shove the Calvinist doctrine down my former Christian throat. I didn’t recognize it here, though.

      What’s funny is that he tried to post his criticisms of my series on an Arminian forum and they were more enthusiastic about attacking him than attacking me.

  2. Richard says:

    Another great post…I especially like his use of the word “consensus.”

    There are at least 10 thousand different Christian denomination in the world, and I’ve heard estimates as high at 38 thousand.

    Also taking into consideration the breadth of beliefs in the early Christian church, such as Gnosticism, Arianism, etc, this guy is obviously using a different definition of consensus than I would.

    Calvanism…Arminianism…

    Hell, how many generations did the Catholic church argue over the state of Mary’s virginity before, during, and after the birth of Jesus?

    Jesus was God…Jesus was human…Jesus was human and God…Jesus was human and became God…Jesus was God and became human…Jesus was spiritually resurrected…Jesus was physically resurrected…

    The Old Testament laws are invalid…the Old Testament laws are still valid…women shouldn’t teach…women can teach…

    Faith…works…faith and works…

    Is there anything that Christians have a consensus on?

    • darthelghast says:

      The only thing they agree on is that each individual Christian believes they know the truth, regardless of what friends, family, their pastor, or even their Bible say about it.

      I mean, how many Christians do you know twist what the Bible says and call it ‘interpreting’?

  3. charleslehmann says:

    To my mind, the logical outcome of this type of thought is:

    1. A True Christian can’t lose their faith/change their mind.

    2, The only time at which it can be reasonably said that someone will not change their mind is after they are dead.

    3. Therefore, the only True Christians are dead Christians.

    I do realize that there could be True Christians who have not yet died and will die still believing, so it would be more accurate to say that *we* cannot know whether someone is a True Christian or not (since we cannot know their true thoughts), and that it is only with the dead Christian that we can have the highest confidence in their True Christian status since we have no evidential reason to believe that a mind can be changed after death.

    Plus, I think it’s pretty damn funny that this is in accord with the teachings that ‘the VAST majority of Christians for the last 2000 years’. ;)

  4. Sam Chamy says:

    Quick quesiton, what do you think was the straw that broke the camel’s back for your Christian faith? What was the last thread that broke that made you lose faith in Jesus Christ? In other words, what exactl deconverted you? Thanks. – Sam

    • evid3nc3 says:

      That is not a quick question. I created an entire section of the video series to answer it. The section is called Deconversion. It starts at 2.0. You can see my answer there.

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